Sound Policy podcast: How resilient is your country?

Welcome to Sound Policy from FM. On this show engineers, researchers and insurance professionals break down the challenges businesses face and the strategies to overcome them. Today, we'll be taking a global view of risk and resilience. Every year we release the FM Resilience Index, our annual ranking of 130 countries and territories by the resilience of their business environments.

And what was the most resilient country in the world this year? We called up an FM engineering specialist named Simon Barsoum to learn more about it.

Simon, where are you calling from?

Simon Barsoum
I'm calling from a mid-sized town called Holbæk in Denmark, which is located about 60km west of the capital, Copenhagen.

Brian Amaral
And Denmark is the number one country in the FM resilience Index this year for the third year running. Why do you think that is? What makes Denmark so resilient?

Simon Barsoum
That's a very large question, with no one answer to it. But if you look at the different parameters that are driving the Resilience Index, from the physical aspect, then Denmark is very fortunate to be located, in what I would call, very low exposure to natural hazards. So by nature, this is a very large factor that drives into that. So we are fortunate to avoid, huge natural disasters as we see around the globe, like earthquakes, and hurricanes, for instance. But at the same time, Denmark is also a front runner into the climate changes and how we embrace the exposure we have today all the climate changes. Denmark is a strong driver green energy and green political programs as well, to reduce emissions of pollution, etc.

[Narration] Brian Amaral
Of course, even the most resilient country in the world has its challenges. Denmark has been in the news lately due to tensions with the U.S. over Greenland.

Simon Barsoum
This object has been very sensitive, and a challenging case, for Denmark. But what Denmark did was that they reached out to our neighbors in Scandinavia and Europe to ensure that we have the support and unity with Denmark. So they stand with Denmark. And several countries have publicly stated that they are standing behind Denmark in this case. So I think that's what I would define that strong partnerships plays a vital role into resilience.

Brian Amaral
Is there a particularly Danish way of approaching challenges that helps drive resilience? Is resilience sort of baked into the culture there?

Simon Barsoum
I believe it is without knowing about it, but it is, it is in the back of the minds, the way the nature of the way we are acting and working. For example, Denmark does not easily go into panic or panic mode, but stay focused, on the issue. And communicating with our partners, and stress that we have the same goals and purpose helps also to go throug, challenges as well.

[Narration] Brian Amaral
Simon was born in Denmark to parents from Egypt, which is ranked 75th out of 130 countries and territories in the 2026 FM Resilience Index.

Simon Barsoum
Egypt is, is undergoing a transition, so to say, just a lot of things that are being built up from the ground, huge inflations have, played a role, and made life difficult in Egypt. But what I see, I go to Egypt a couple of times a year, and each time ago I see the developments that are happening in Egypt, especially in the infrastructure of the country, which are needed. Then I would say positively, you see the resilience at many of our sites in Egypt compared to how the country is resilient. And I think that speaks a lot about also that most of the sites are multinational owned company. So they also get the needed support, funding, support to drive a good risk quality. I mean, first time I visited the sites of clients in Egypt, I was very surprised how many sites were actually sprinkler protected, compared to what I see in Denmark for example. So that was an eye opener for me and how our clients are really on board with FM and how they want to improve the risk and be aligned with FM’s goal to improve the overall risk quality.

Brian Amaral
There are, of course, 128 other countries and territories in the FM Resilience Index. To find out more about how this tool ranks them, we spoke to Leo Kushner, Business Intelligence Director at FM.

Leo, thanks for joining us. Before we get into the data, can you share a little bit more about yourself?

Leo Kushner
My career started in the technical space, but I was drawn to analytics less by the tools and more by the questions that we answer, especially how decisions get made when there isn't a perfect equation or algorithm to support it. I was always interested in how data and real world decisions come together, and that naturally led me to business intelligence, where the goal is to help people understand what data means and how to act on it.

Brian Amaral
Comes as a big spreadsheet, but it comes out with actual actionable decisions.

Leo Kushner
Absolutely. The FM Resilience Index is a country level, data driven view of business resilience. It looks at exposure to disruption and the conditions that support it. We look across 130 different countries and it's at a country level. It's not a site specific score or a prediction. It's a strategic lens to help leaders think more clearly about geography, with site selections, with supply chains and long-term risk.

Brian Amaral
How long has FM been doing the Resilience Index for? How has it sort of evolved over the years?

Leo Kushner
FM’s been producing the Resilience Index for just over a decade. It started with a smaller set of economic and risk drivers, and it's evolved as the risk landscape has changed. Over time, we've added new factors like water stress, climate change exposure and GHG emissions. We also restructured the index into macro and physical factors to better reflect resilience and how it actually works.

Brian Amaral
You're a data guy. What sort of data is used across the factors in that FM Resilience index.

Leo Kushner
The index combines proprietary, engineering information and loss prevention data with trusted public sources like World Bank, IMF, World Health Organization and UN. That combination is what gives us the ability to capture both macro conditions as well as physical risk management quality.

Brian Amaral
Proprietary data. So that's based on things that have actually happened in the real world, not, you know, a hypothetical ranking. Can you explain how that proprietary data comes into the mix?

Leo Kushner
Absolutely. So we have our own engineering data, which we've been capturing for decades, that we rely on to make decisions. And that data is leveraged within these components of the Resilience Index as well.

Brian Amaral
So let's talk about 2026 data. When you first got the new data this year, what jumped out to you when you're going through the data?

Leo Kushner
What really stood out to me in 2026 is how interconnected the risks have become. It's less about any single hazard and more about how things like climate, water stress and fire protection combined to shape recovery. The index really reinforces that resilience is holistic and not standalone.

Brian Amaral
You mentioned recovery. Is there any data that shows the differences in recovery time if you're well ranked versus more poorly ranked?

Leo Kushner
What the data shows very clearly is that Resilience Index rankings are tied to recovery outcomes. Locations in top ranked countries recover over 30% faster from property losses on average. It's not about avoiding disruption. It's about how quickly and reliably you can recover. And geography plays a big role in that.

Brian Amaral
Let's get into some of the particular country level data. The United States has now, all three regions of the United States have now fallen out of the top ten. What are some of the factors that may have led to this? And can you put this in context from a business continuity standpoint?

Leo Kushner
So first, the US didn't fall out of the top ten because of one thing. It's the result of several factors adding up. The country remains a major energy producer, but the index highlights a disconnect between production and efficiency, with energy intensity weighing on the resilience. The takeaway isn't to sound an alarm, but it does provide insight to where long term structural changes are starting to emerge. As far as continuity, resilience is about exposure and recovery. The FM Resilience Index puts geography into context by showing at a country level where exposure is higher and lower, and where recovery will be easier or harder. It operates upstream from traditional continuity planning, which helps organizations compare regions, anticipate continuity risks, and decide where deeper site level planning is most needed.

Brian Amaral
So how should a business interpret if, say, their country has fallen significantly in the rankings year over year? How should business leaders in those countries be thinking about what that means?

Leo Kushner
Well, first, they shouldn't overreact to the rank itself. The ranking is just a signal. It's not a verdict. The real insight comes from understanding which drivers moved and why, and also whether those changes align with the company's own exposure and strategy.

Brian Amaral
Country level. Obviously, some of these are very big countries. Even the ones that are divided into regions are still pretty widespread regions.

Leo Kushner
Correct. So identifying which drivers the specific industry is looking at can be most important to that specific country.

Brian Amaral
Data centers, obviously a big topic right now. What rankings might be relevant to the data center industry? What trends were you seeing emerge in those rankings this year.

Leo Kushner
For data centers, I see five factors that are likely most relevant. Those are energy intensity, water stress, internet usage, fire risk quality, and cybersecurity. What we're seeing is efficiency and physical constraints like water availability and fire risk, are becoming just as important as power generation and grid resilience within the business sector.

Brian Amaral
So for businesses that want to dig deeper, what's the what's the best next step that they can take?

Leo Kushner
The index helps identify where questions exist. The next step is connecting that country level insight to your actual operations through site level assessments, supply chain reviews, and continuity planning. That's where insight turns into real measurable resilience.

Brian Amaral
Leo, thanks for being on the show.

Leo Kushner
Thanks for having me.

[Narration] Brian Amaral
This data driven decision making seems more relevant than ever at a time of global volatility. As Denmark shows us, even the most resilient places have their challenges. To learn more about the Resilience Index, you can visit fm.com/resilienceindex or check the show notes. To learn more about Denmark though, just talk to a Danish engineer like Simon Barsoum.

Brian Amaral
Walk us through a Danish factory? What might you see there that would tell you that you're in a Danish factory, that you're in the sort of place that might bounce back more quickly from property loss.

Simon Barsoum
When I enter, a site in Denmark very quickly, you get an insight how this organization works and functions. From the moment you enter, like the lobby, the premises, you realize quickly how the security level is at that site. Does the site have fire protection installed? You talk to a client. How are they prepared? For an offset event. What plans do they have? To to act, during a loss event. But also, how do they plan to recover? As soon as possible. So when you talk to your clients about, these topics, and you found they are in place, you leave the site with a very good feeling because one. It's a it's a really good, relatively good, risk quality. But even more, should a loss happen, they will bounce back quickly because they are prepared, for it. So for me, that's also another type of resilience.

Brian Amaral
In the 2026 FM Resilience Index, nine out of the top ten spots were claimed by European countries. Why do you think that is?

Simon Barsoum
I think this, if you look at Europe, Europe is is the smallest continent on the planet. If you exclude, Australia for for a moment, which means European countries are well connected, we have the European Union, which ties Europe together. And I believe that the European Union also set some strategies. And there are many shared collaborations between the countries in Europe. So I would say Europe goes hand in hand, a long way. And that impacts the results, of the resilience in many European countries. I believe.

Brian Amaral
Thanks, Simon. Let's end this on a high note. If someone were to visit, where would you take them? To show them the real Denmark?

Simon Barsoum
I would probably start with, Copenhagen. That's where they land, typically. Take them into the capital and show them all the, history of Copenhagen. Show them all the sightseeing points. Go to a very nice restaurant, try Danish food, like sausages, pork roast. We also have what we called in Danish Smorrebrod. So that's like a rye bread with a lot of nice toppings on. That's also very, very traditional Danish. Specialty. And then that will probably take them, out of Copenhagen and go to a mid-town, like my own hometown and show how things are really down to earth, and and the fresh air and the nature that's real. Probably. I would, I would, take a visitor to to see the big one. And the less bigger one.

Brian Amaral
Simon, thanks for being on the show.

Simon Barsoum Thank you for having me.